The future of the fursuit floor
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This year Anthrocon counted 453 fursuits in its parade. Since there are always a number of costumers who do not participate in the parade, it's a safe bet that there may have been as many as 500 fursuiters present at the convention. In the past we have sought to offer the lower floors of the hotel to fursuiters, which worked fine when we had a couple dozen fursuits. This year there were a lot of complaints that "I asked for the fursuit floor but I wound up on the 17th floor!" People don't seem to realize that with the number of requests we had, the 17th floor WAS one of the fursuit floors. Each floor of the Westin has an average of 28 rooms, and of those 28 rooms, a certain percentage are king-bed rooms and a certain percentage are double-bed rooms. Prior to the convention, a mournful Jaime called me up and said, "With the number of requests for king-bed rooms on the fursuit floor, we have them blocked all the way up to the twenty-first floor." I'm afraid that the sheer size of Anthrocon's fursuit community has made it impractical to offer any fursuit floors for 2009, because we're likely to have to put people up clear on the 26th floor, which rather defeats the whole purpose. Since the hotel cannot guarantee room placement in advance due to the number of people who cancel, or who change their minds about the type or location of their room, or who check in at a time when the room blocked for them is not yet available for occupancy, we only make it more painful in the long run for the majority of our fursuiters. The best that we can do is to make better signage pointing the way to the stairs that access the 3rd floor, and try to be more pursuasive in convincing our membership (albeit a small but very disruptive percentage) to follow the rules that we put in place to try to keep the elevators running efficiently: (*) Priority on the elevators is always given to fursuiters in costume. If we can get folks to respect these rules, it will greatly minimize the wait times in the lobby as well as on the upper floors. I'm willing to entertain any and all practical ideas for making things easier for our fursuiters, but first let me address some that have already been proposed: (1) We do not have the manpower to post operators in each elevator, and even if we did, we are not permitted to use the fireman's key to control the cars. (2) The computers that run the elevators are simple beasts and do not have the capacity to dedicate certain elevators to certain floors. (3) People have suggested putting lockers in the Headless Lounges so that fursuiters could leave their suits there. Nobody has offered any suggestion as to where such lockers would come from, nor how we would pay for them to be moved in and out, nor where we would store them outside of the convention, nor how we would keep the room secure when the fursuiter was not around, nor how we would handle the liability that it would create for us if a suit is lost or damaged, nor how we would handle the inevitable crunch for space if more than 400 fursuiters tried to use the Headless Lounge as a storage area for their suits at once. |

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As long as there's room going up (i.e., people have gotten off between the lobby and whatever floor you're on), I don't see a big problem with going up to go down (though it'd probably be quicker to take the stairs, which is what I do at work (I'm on the 7th floor), unless you're on 20 and want to go to 5 or some such thing).
I agree with "don't go down to go up" and the "out at the lobby" rule though...
If you edit your post to flip "up" and "down", feel free to delete this reply
Ron
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Actually, it is a huge issue. The elevators arrive at the top floor already full, and then anyone from floor 25 down who is trying to get to the lobby is faced with a full car each time.
When I catch people doing that, I take them aside and I talk to them.
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permalinkAnd then they are never seen nor heard from ever again...
-There is no truth
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permalinkLocation: HI
Yes there in lies the alternative job description for the "black ops" stage ninjas. XP
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permalinkCould always do on the 25th floor like they do in the lobby, make everyone get out of the elevator when they reach the 25th floor. You rode it up, now walk down the stairs and catch it at another floor.
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permalinkLocation: Chicagoland
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As Kage's said, it is actually a massive issue: the elevators in the Westin are keyed to detect a certain amount of weight (substantially before the safety limit), and at that point the call buttons on each floor are effectively disabled. The car will immediately begin heading for the lobby, ignoring any call between it and the ground floor that did not come from the in-car panel. This is a big, big problem for those people on higher floors trying to get a downbound-car--ask Kage about 2006, when he and I were standing on the 21st floor trying desperately to get a car down so he could make Story Hour on time.
This is also why "everyone out at the Lobby" is very important as well: if the weight limit sensor is activated on the way up, the car will ignore any further calls from above the floor it is on and will begin an expedited descent to the lobby to unload.
It is very inconvenient, yes, but it beats the flying fox-fluff out of "when too close to maximum weight the car simply shuts itself OFF".
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permalinkSo, in other words... goodbye fursuit floor, hello fursuit hotel?
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iSKUNK!
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Give it time, and we'll have "the Fursuit Neighborhood."
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permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
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Mister Rogers' Fursuit Neighborhood?
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*boottothehead*!
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permalinkLocation: 12 scenic miles from Hell
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"It's a beautifur day in the neighborhood...."
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Thats a Mr. Rogers I would have actually watched.
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permalinkLocation: Laredo, TX
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If you google search, theres a number of websites where you can buy lockers from, although I have yet to find any where you can rent them. It might save money in the long run though. And theres several ways you can pay for it. You could impose a fee for renting a locker with two options; by the day, or throughout the whole con. You can also increase the registration fees as well. And theres fundraisers, raffles, denotations, etc. I think this is a great idea that could be imposed if you think carefully. Those other things wouldn't seem like a problem. What about asking volunteers to help move them? And what about those big storage units you can rent? And there is a thing called "locks" you can put on them... oh yeah, what about that disclaimer "AC cannot be held responsible for theft or damages"? The last bit might be a problem. But I don't think every fursuiter is gonna want a locker. Why not just put a limited number of them and make it a first come first served basis?
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Thank you for the input. However, there is no way we could do this without unimaginable expense. I'm not talking a few hundred dollars -- I'm talking thousands of dollars. We need to pay Union labor to move the things both in and out; we would need to pay to have them transported since we don't have a big enough truck or strong enough backs; we would need larger rooms to put them in, which would require additional expenses for cooling those rooms; we would need considerable storage space for them outside the convention. Further, the standard high-school gym locker would not be suitable. Fursuiters would need something big enough to store a very bulky item (the head and paws can be quite large), so we would need extra-sized lockers, the expense for several dozen of which makes my head spin.
Money is not as easy to raise as you think, and since many people already have to scrape together their pennies in order to afford Anthrocon, I am extremely reluctant to add to that expense.
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permalinkLocation: In a small little box in your small little mind.
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Then I have a better Idea on them. Instead of buying the lockers, why not have someone (like me,
) build them? I know a carpenter (He is both state and nationally renowned
) that would be more then willing to help with this. We could have it set up so that it is easy to build and easy to take apart (making it great for transportation) and it would probably be made of tough, light wood.
Just give me dimensions and I will talk to my friend.
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That solves the question of cost of materials and of labor to set up and tear down.
It doesn't, however, get around the extra expense of offsite storage, transportation, and the added space we would need at the DLCC (if we put lockers in the Headless Lounge, there would be hardly any room left for the fursuiters).
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permalinkUnless you move the headless lounge to Hall D.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
Well, that does take care of some of the problem...though it still leaves that pesky issue of space.
At present, we already have fursuiters every year raising concerns that the headless lounge gets really crowded sometimes, and asking if it would be possible to police it a little bit more. I don't fursuit, but i would imagine that a locker big enough to store a full suit without squishing the paws and head would have to be around 2 feet cubed. That means that you'd end up eating up an enormous amount of space (and a lot of volunteer person-power, come setup and break down) to provide even 20-30 lockers, only to serve less than 10% of the fursuit population. If you were part of that elite group that got a locker, it'd be great. If you were part of the unwashed masses, it could lead to some pretty serious frustration.
And while AC's budget seems to be generally holding up quite well, i'm not sure they can afford to get a whole second room for suit storage and cover the costs of refrigerating it without a significant hike in registration fees, even if they attached a locker rental fee and dealt with the extra complications of processing it. In the past, i appreciate our board's continuing efforts to keep AC as affordable as possible for as many as possible, and raising everyone's registration fees for a fursuit locker room, when fursuiters currently represent about 15% of the population and that service would only benefit a small percentage of them...just doesn't seem like a terribly fair use of resources.
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permalinkwhile I don't personally think the locker rout is the way to go part of the cost could be deferred by the suiters using them. have a sign up sheet(like artist alley where you sign up each day or maybe when you register you can request a suit locker. You would then pay an extra fee for the use.
I'm not a fan of the locker idea but I thought the above might help
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permalinkThats an idea, make people pay for them. I know some people like to store their suits in the headless lounges for some stupid reason I'll never understand. And I know atleast one person had more then one suit stolen from one of the headless lounge this year. I'm sure people would be willing to pay for space.
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permalinkwell if it was a secure locker yeah I'm sure people would be willing to if they are already leaving them unsecured in the lounges.
(for some reason I was reading your reply as sarcastic. if this was not the case I'm sorry it can be tricky on message boards)
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permalinkI'm almost always sarcastic, its rare for me to be serious. Life is more interesting and more fun when you laugh at everything and everyone.
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permalinkLocation: Orlando, FL
There are a couple of serious problems with "locker" ideas. The first of which is liability. What happens if someone does something to the lockers? Someone spills something or accidentally sprays or splashed something that gets inside the locker? How happy would you be if someone inadvertantly spalshed soda or any sugary drink onto your fursuit and you didn't know about it until the next day? The convention can't take that kind of liability.
The second is one of hygene. As many people noticed at the convention, some people sweat more than others. Some suits develop an "aroma" (putting it politely) if they are not well ventilated and allowed to be disinfected and properly dried regularly. I'm not sure that the hotel or the convention center would appreciate the "locker room smell" that would be created.
While the thought of lockers is nice in theory, it's really not practical. And as Anthrocon continues to grow, the risks become greater.
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permalinkLocation: New Brighton, MN, USA
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I think that this goes as an obvious suggestion, but consider what you are doing when you head toward and are leaving from your hotel. Plan out what you want to do so that you don't have to make repeated trips to the elevator. You shouldn't be thinking to yourself, "oh, I forgot something," or "maybe I should get this."
Just saying.
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permalinkLocation: NJ
Stairs help you get in shape! Just think of all the calories you burn going up 26 flights of stairs! It's the Anthrocon Workout!
Plus, going downstairs is easy. Gravity is working with you there. ;3
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permalinkthat could work, and raise money for the con at the same time.
Uncle Kage needs to release the official anthrocon work out video. Guaranteed to shed pounds or your money back (warning not a legal guarantee)
An 80 minute video of fursuiters running up the hotel's stairs (and occasionaly passing out from the heat) and since no one ever sticks with a work out video anyway no one will die of heat exhaustion so no one will sue
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permalinkLocation: HI
I wasn't gonna suggest anything, because there were still problems I was wrestling around with in my head, but what if you guys used a system similar to the art auction/show? A partitioned and gaurded area with open bins that could be traded for tags. It may alleviate some of the cost as well as the moving trouble.
You would have to have someone watching it for the duration of lounge hours of course. If the bins were stackable, they probably could be easily stored and transported after the convention ended.
It could also prevent damage to suits by others in the room, as well as let the suits air out a little more.
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Again, it suffers from a few drawbacks:
1) Fursuits really need to be hung up to dry and to air; piling them in bins tends to make them stinky and moldy.
2) We don't have the space available (and it would take a LOT of space)
3) We don't have the manpower at this time for it.
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permalinkLocation: HI
I suppose if that is the case you could get costume racks and actually Hang the suits. Of course this does not eliminate the the manpower issue. As far as space goes I am not sure about that one either. Five Hundred suits are hard to store no matter how you slice it.
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permalinkLocation: Honey Creek, Iowa
It probably would be a good idea for the hotel to recalibrate its "full sensors", or install Espros or other detection equipment, as much of the elevator's slowness HAS to be related to the continuous stopping on the way up or down while full. When calling an elevator from one of the mid to upper floors, I noticed that 75% of the time they were full, and that has got to have a serious effect on the wait times.
It would be nice if the hotel could do upgrades on the elevators, but would probably take several conventions asking for it to make it happen as they aren't cheap upgrades.
The connection to the convention center is a bit odd too, as you would think there would be ramps or something to handle the traffic that such a huge center would generate. The 2 slow elevators and one set of stairs that only go to the ballroom ??? is a bit odd, you gotta admit.
Jeefers --- just ramblin
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permalinkLocation: Syracuse, NY
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It all boils down to money... there was supposed to be a whole 'nother hotel built with and attached to the convention center but the developer ran out of money and it was never built. The skybridge to the Westin was a permanent solution to a temporary problem (or maybe it's the other way around).
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permalink(*) Priority on the elevators is always given to fursuiters in costume.
Well yes i did the elevators most of the time but some people going down in the elevators, had room on there for at least one suiter just denied me and went down...i was like wtf...im a suiter and they were all non suiters and obviously don't care at all. Just because they don't have their own suits doesn't mean they need to disrespect me the fursuiter and deny me my right to the elevator..grrrr X3
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We have no control over that, but sadly, you have seen for yourself why we must sometimes be heavy-handed in enforcing elevator rules.
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permalinkLocation: New Brighton, MN, USA
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There's another issue with the elevators that I started as a joke, but then got to thinking, "this might be an actual problem."
Does anyone ever notice how difficult is is to breathe on the elevators when you start to cram 15+ furs in a single car? I don't know about you, but if I was in costume, I'd certainly want to move quickly!
The other thing I should point out is the 3rd floor. Why? Coming from my hotel room, I chose to get off at the third floor, because I have access to stairways and an escalator to the DLCC, and the people on the lobby are greeted with an empty elevator. (Plus, I get to registration PDQ.) Plus, I like to breathe.
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permalinkLocation: Tennessee Ya'll!
I agree, we also preferred to get off at the 3rd floor.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
So perhaps i might offer a suggestion, and one that doesn't require any additional action on the part of staff of hotel for once; all we have to do is be a little more mindful and share it among ourselves, see if we can cause a little culture change.
For those of us (yes, i'm one of those) who choose not to wear fursuits (and are able-bodied and unencumbered): fursuiters are doing a very strenuous form of exercise in order to share something special with the rest of us, and the amount of time that they can perform is dependent on the amount of time they can be out in the crowd before they start to get sick from the heat. If you're coming down and you see a fursuiter waiting for an elevator on a low floor, how about offering your spot in the elevator to them for the last few flights? You can probably get down more easily on your own steam than they can.
For those who choose to fursuit (while they're fursuiting): don't forget that while the rest of us are doing our best to take care of you and support your work, priority at the elevator is a (security-supported) privilege, not a right, and its main purpose is to safeguard your health. Every time someone steps off an elevator to make room for you, it's a special gift. Try to do something to let that person know how much you appreciate that gift, even if it's just gesturing a simple 'thank you'.
:pause: Wow, that came off sounding really kumbaya-ish. :shrugs and smiles: Of course, doing something like this could make elevators run even slower for those waiting to come up. I bow to others' superior judgment, as usual.
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permalinkLocation: Maryland
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R.I.P Fursuit Floor.
I considered myself lucky, I was able to get a room on the 9th floor and found it was much easier to walk (at times) then face full elevators. Because of this I lost 5 lbs of weight at this years con.
This was a good thing, according to my wife!
Speedy Hamshark
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permalinkLocation: Roseville, CA, USA
Reading all the above postings has me pondering about something...
We've lost the Omni for next year, and this will almost certainly lead to us filling the Westin, unless the Westin has set aside rooms for some other user/event.
We can no longer, as a practical matter, designate a floor as the "Fursuit Floor".
Because of the distance to travel, time to travel, and time waiting to get onto and off a floor due to the elevator overcrowding, Fursuiting as an activity will pretty much consist of from your bedroom to the 3rd floor/2nd floor/Lobby and back for those with short endurance tolerances, and from bedroom to 3rd floor to skybridge to convention center to Headless Lounge (Pant*pant*pant) across long walkway to escalator to exhibit floor to Hall B...and back the same route, with e chance at a breather at the Headless Lounge.
I remember some mention in another thread that the hotel has a 4th floor, with a pool/spa/workout facility, and perhaps some other user amenities there, as well. Admittedly, I've not been there to actually SEE it, so I don't know how big a space this is - but such facilities often have lockers in them. And if we make up 95% of the hotel population during our event, that space is not going to get a whole lot of use, except by those of us who swim or work out.
Assuming that the space is big enough (a large assumption I'll admit), wouldn't this make a good location for fursuit changing and storage? Mind you, that is ALL it could serve as, you go in, change, and leave - since it isn't a temporary "Fursuit Recuperation and lounge", it wouldn't need any A/C beyond what is already there.
...Of course - if the space actually would suffice in this service, it would have to be exclusively "ours" for the duration of the convention - which means considering it as part of "event space" - and paying for it. I don't believe that pool/spa/workout room is a traditional part of Banquet Facilities, but there might be a precedent - private pool parties, or some such - and there might actually be a history of what such a space would go for. Probably a pretty good penny (or a lot of pennies). It might even require a surcharge to fursuiters to make it affordable.
I'm not trying to think of extra ways to charge the attendees, here, I'm just trying to see if there is a managable opportunity to make a situation more managable, and more safe.
EDIT: OK, having seen in the "Headless Lounge!" feedback thread that there already WAS a lounge in the hotel proper, this might not be as helpful as I had thought.
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permalinkIt does have a gym and lap pool, along with a few dozen lockers. But the problem is, like any other large hotel with a fitness center in a major city, the fitness center isn't just for hotel guests. People have regular gym memberships there and go there several times a week. All their lockers are rented out and have permanent locks on them, so in order to get the lockers, you would have to get all the people that have yearly memberships to give up their yearly memberships. Also there is no stair access from the 4th floor, and getting an elevator to get off the fourth floor is next to impossible, I tried it once this year, it wasn't easy.
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permalinkLocation: Orlando, FL
So let me throw out an idea that someone told me about. It doesn't involve asking the convention to do anything differently, rather it involves furs helping each other out.
Someone who was staying at the Omni made an arrangement with a friend at the Westin. His friend was not a fursuiter, he was. He asked if he could have some of the unused closet space in the Westin hotel room to store his fursuit, and in return, he gave his friend $5 or $10 a day for the storage privilege. It worked out beautifully for both of them. The fursuiter not only had a place in the Westin to store the costume but also had a place to change in privacy. The non-fursuiter got a bit of the hotel cost shaved off due to the contribution of his friend. It was a win-win for both parties.
Perhaps a solution like this would make the most sense. It doesn't increase any demands on the convention staff, lets people make their own arrangements, and could lead to making new friends in the process.
Just my two cents...and the somewhat idealistic thought that we don't have to complicate things any more than necessary....just learn to help one another out.
KP
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permalinkLocation: Nokesville, VA
Yeah, I've made an arrangement like this for a friend of mine just in case he isn't staying at the Westin next year.
..Hey, why don't -I- have one of those nifty little staff buttons?
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permalinkSame reason I don't?
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Talk to Giza!
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permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
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All fixed.
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permalinkLocation: Nokesville, VA
BUSA SIMBA IYO!
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I don't know how well it would fly, but it _might_ be a partial solution, at least to the 'suit' problem. (note the "Partial")
If the new Dealer's Room/Art Show room is large enough, could a section be curtained off much like the Art Show, and simply have rows of clothes poles? Just assign one person there to check in and out suits, to be hung up. If it's in a back corner, near a good air return, there shouldn't be much problem with odor.
Anthrocon could charge a daily fee for use of the racks, and use the same sort of procedure as the Art show. It could also charge for 'services' (if anyone was willing to help out), including a suit dryer. (Maybe deodorizing? Boxes of Arm & Hammer in a basket in the suit?
)
Depending on demand, it could be put together with PVC pipe only, which could be obtained from a local Lowes or Home Depot, assembled quickly, disassembled quickly, and easily stored. (or just gotten rid of). For that matter, the convention hall might have something that would work. (Those really tall dividers they use between convention stalls, for example)
I'm planning on being there next year, early again, if possible, so I'd be willing to volunteer some time for this if necessary.
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permalinkI see two possible problems with this:
1) Anthrocon has to rent all the curtains. I believe they have to pay by the linear foot.
2) If this were in the Convention Center, it would have to be constructed by the teamsters, due to their union contract.
Both of these could end being very expensive, very quickly.
How far wrong am I, Kage?
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I'd have to see the contract. I live in Houston, and closed contracts are banned by Texas state law. Both the union and the business can be severely punished for attempting one.
Therefore, I don't know much about that - I know about getting 'associate' status in a union, however, which means you don't have anywhere near the dues, but you can get union jobs and be part of collective bargaining. (The unions don't like to talk about it much)
The (below) comment about the showers is probably more to the point, however. I hadn't thought about that part.
Curtains - Shouldn't take THAT much for the outside, anyway (you're not doing rows and rows, just enough to hide the stuff from view).
I'll try to put more thought into it. From experience in theatre, the suits could be pretty closely hung, with just enough room to walk between the 'aisles', so you could get a lot of suits into pretty small spaces (barring heads).
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1) Pennsylvania is not Texas.
2) We would incur significant additional labor costs to assemble/disassemble such a rack, as well as for the rental and assembly of the pipe and drape.
3) There are no showers, as has been stated.
4) We would need additional staff to man the room, and to take money if we were to charge for its user, which carries its own logistical problems.
5) Hall B is significantly closer to the escalators up to the existing Headless Lounge.
6) Once and for all: Anthrocon does not want the liability of being responsible for watching someone else's property.
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permalinkThe problem I see with this is, once you get out of suit, you are very nasty and sweaty, you don't really want to walk all the way back from the convention center to the hotel dripping sweat and stinking of BO
I can't speak for everything, but the first thing I do after getting out of suit is shower.
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